This crazy idea

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Just viewed Sugata Mitra vid - man its good - makes an even greater impact - need to get some of the wording from the end of the vid just before he calls the idea OUTDOCTRINATION.... Do we need another social network format for this idea beyond the wiki? Are we ready to promote this beyond those already in the loop? What needs a tidy up - i wonder about adding the sequence from the email i.e the how we go about each stage? Also how does your school have a trucking company for a name?

Rekrapenator (talk)22:43, 22 October 2010

I think tidy-up before further promotion. I will definitely be working on this over this weekend because I have to have it all in writing for the BOT etc. The trucking thing is a long interesting and good story. I tell you it when time is on my side.

Taratj (talk)06:55, 24 October 2010

Dogma/Doctrine imposed - would this be a place to discuss the govt? Imposition of the Piagetian pedagogy (nat standards based on age) as opposed to Vygotsky?

What do you think?

Taratj (talk)16:12, 24 October 2010

Explain the theories as you write them up - like the Richard Stallman link - its about exposing each other to the inspiration found in other peoples ideas. I.e hole in the wall, the cartoon one about education. The whole NS has sort of passed us by and I keep my head focused on the wiki - but if the theories fit, hang them out on display, thats why i keep banging on about with the $62. I also think the second part of the plan makes sense to me - can you check it out, sort if out if it needs it or add further ideas or ask questions - I will do the same with your ideas too :)

Rekrapenator (talk)17:02, 24 October 2010
Edited by another user.
Last edit: 18:36, 24 October 2010

Okay, from my perspective I don't like the 'needy' implication and I also have issues with inheriting our richer cousin's e-waste. Are we trying to empower the kids with the superior OS? Or are we providing an e-waste collection service for tertiary providers because we are so 'desperate'? Or is it a bit of both? What provisions can we make for the remote schools in 5 years time? Where will the machines end up going? Who is responsible? OR do we put that to one side and concentrate on the question - Does Gnu-Linux provide kids with better learning outcomes than Microsoft OS and Mac OS?

It all depends on how we view the waste - I have managed to get more access to computers more has been better - about 1:2 - I don't want to make it look like anyone is desperate and maybe the focus goes to distribution to those who need them probably based around our BBOSI computers protocol of enviro schools first - they will take responsibility for ewaste where moving the responsibility to the Boards of trustees - which at the moment there isnt - boards and principals could sign a contract saying how they would dispose of the computer when no longer required or dead. This contract would then alert people that there is presently no requirement for Boards to recycle their IT - ummmm

GNU/Linux - we need to link that idea to Stallman, Free Software Ccase study

Ok ive added the plan from the email and written it with an emphasis on linking to our BBOSI computers idea and hopefully angling the tertiary needing us as much as them via creating cloesed loop and maximising technology use.

Taratj (talk)17:29, 24 October 2010
Edited by 2 users.
Last edit: 18:44, 24 October 2010

so I guess what I am saying is that we need to work on the Rationale. I'm all for the tertiary institution thing but I think that it needs to be acknowledged that the 'needy' are doing them as much of a favour that 'they' are doing us. We 'need' them, they 'need' us. I am what I am ...

Yeh write it in - its good to get the 360 vision happening - our schools are so different it will be great to give each another view of life - the Sir Ken vid really captivated me and I think the paradim change needs working through - rationale?? It takes the learning of Sugata and gives credence to applying the context to this idea???

Okay, watching the WHOLE of Sir Ken now...

Cool its an amazing video - I have added more - hope it makes better sense and is more aware of the needs of us all - i have run out of steam - think working on some graphics next - map ???

Taratj (talk)17:48, 24 October 2010
Edited by 2 users.
Last edit: 20:20, 24 October 2010

it certainly is - do you think we could weave divergent thinking into a desired outcome of this project, because this has now raised a new question...

Next question: How are we going to 'measure' the success, because standardized testing is not going to work for me. Infact if we were to raise achievement using current testing as a measure this is not really desirable. Do you get where I am coming from?

I guess the screen shotty process will sort this out and then we can analyse the learning... nevermind Yes thats the Ken connection - assess what why - paradigm shift do we need to is proove that learning has taken place and if so what and how - because the old rules no longer apply - its our roll as educators to create the new rules around current thinking....

COMBINED with Sutra's "we need to produce our own specs instead of 'borrowing' from the board room (e.g. PowerPoint) to create the OUTdoctrination" - lovin' it

and incase you didnt notice i fixed those boxes with the words hanging out with the handy rich editor (:

Yep just tweak and add away - its great using the power of 2 brains (: Some how need to explain outdoctrination

did you see the Sugata quote i added at the top? That kind of explains it

Nice one - i think its taking shape - will leave till morn for any more changes

Taratj (talk)18:50, 24 October 2010
Rekrapenator (talk)08:52, 25 October 2010
Edited by 2 users.
Last edit: 19:17, 1 November 2010

BTW Schools should refuse to teach dependence? Very nice :) Liking that whole section actually.

Now ... I am feeling the need for some kind of time-line (it's the commerce student speaking now). I'm thinking that my class is actually rocking along with aspects of part two. They are slowly being exposed. Where are your kids at? Should we start VCing them just in the sense that they are getting exposed to and used to the equipment? Then my thinking is (and PLEASE tell me if you disagree) that we kick in with Part 1 in 2011? My kids have HEAPS of extra stuff to deal with from about week 5 (graduations swimming, prize givings) I'm off to Hamilton next Friday, I'm taking some CRT over the next two weeks etc etc. I do have 2 eFellow days which will be a good opportunity to get going with this project but from an organisational point of view.

Are you still holding out for Mahara before you start blogging? Because that's a 2011 thing too eh? I think you could use both blogger (or equiv) and Mahara. Would "non Maharians" have access to Mahara?

What do you think?

Yep time line - getting my kids up with what your kids are capale of will be important - we have not blogged or doen the video conferencing thing. Mahara for blog - yeh I am keen to wait till we get this but am thinking about setting up a school blog - I am playing around with a google doc for class collaboration. Connecting up our pupils soon would be good - we have to test the vidoe/skype/gmail link via the server....this would also provide a significant focus for term one rather than it being an add on to all that is going on this term???

Yay - agree. So for term 4 at warrington WALT get our server sorted! Then WALT communicate via video/skype/gmail.

ALSO - another brain wave, now I'm thinking when i use the eFellow days i will get a smaller group of kids to VC yours so that we dont have that mad hysteria screen thing happening. So when you get it sorted at your end we will make a day (not a thursday) and I'll get released for it...

k this is a good idea - i might try and connect up with a camera tomorrow and see if video gmail works...I teach Mon tue but have the option of getting access to the class (students) whenever if i ask nicely. Ah walt - teacher jargon - like prezi cool tool. Cool let us know when you're sorted - we can have an introductory sess :)

Ok still some issues to sort out at this end re connection of video - blast.

Social Literacy - I am making a transcript - then post for you - it may be the missing link - the SO WHAT as Lane would say...

Taratj (talk)19:10, 28 October 2010

Fairly good article in the dscene newspaper about Warrington and Open Source and the Otara TO Otago project - there seems to be no on line links. The reporter struggled with this piece but at least he got the ideas out there. I also downloaded Shutter this morning so I can play around with it. Will see what it can do for screeen recording.

Rekrapenator (talk)07:12, 30 October 2010
Edited by 2 users.
Last edit: 20:10, 1 November 2010

Cool re article - I want to see it. Funny re shutter I was just going to ask if you have had a play. Shouldn't it be Otago TO Otara? Yeh - wondered about this but thought it would be good to have it as a mix?

sorry - somehow i managed to lose the formatting of the headings and now I cant see the edit button ... can you work your magic and fix it? isn't collaboration FUN???

here is a moe def of decile 1

I have dropped the screen capture software off - it complicates things as firstly it will involve too many others to make it work and will be dependant on you and I knowing how to run it - I think what we both record will be satisfactory. I am thinking about an on line collaborative google doc attached to the wiki page - one that the kids can pose questions and answers pics etc There will be your class blog and also this wiki..... Also so what - kids in your class can setup and run an open source computer - what does that prove and how do we then apply this we wait and see or draw conclusions beforehand? How do we apply thier learning?

yep fair questions (in a Lane Clark kind of way)? Still pondering them but at this stage I do not want to draw conclusions beforehand. But I will assume that quality learning will take place. They will be the ones that can articulate that though if we are 'letting go'. Aren't we also seeing what will happen _after_ they have installed the software?

I do still like the idea of screen capture but you are right there is enough to be going on with in the meantime...

Yeh glad you can see logic - ultimately what is it we are expecting to see from this process - I think this need a heading i.e expectations...

Okay - feeling the need for some too and fro dialogue on this one - Let's get back to the hole in the wall argument and see what it is exactly that the kids can achieve by collaborating and sharing ideas. I'm expecting that we will see similar results to the hole in the wall (i.e. they self teach via the assistance of each other). I am hoping to see some regional and cultural collaboration between our two groups (you know how the kids in the hole in the wall picked up English?) well maybe the Otara kids will get some Otago dialect and vice versa :) Also will my kids acquire the technical jargon of Linux? Will you notice changes in the language your kids acquire in a bloggy sense?

I am sure we will find something that we would never have expected too because ultimately the kids will be driving

have you seen this?

Hey this is brilliant - it so fits with what we are doing - I took notes and will add to this page. Creativity.....

yeah cool eh? ignore my title comment i see what you mean now - you meant an expectations heading, now watching those vids i wonder if we could be so bold and do CRITERIA but that freaks me out a little - how do you feel about it?

I added an extra piece at the bottom - title and ideas not quite right but this last video of Sir Ken needs to be added to what e are doing - fitting so well with collaboration and creative thought happening here... IS this how we tie part one to part two???

Cool :) So what is it that WE value? What we value can then be the criteria. Now if we were to weave the enviroethical stuff through (as a value) that will nicely link us into section 2. And ubuntu as a philosophy does this as well. I'm already seeing this through the collaborative teaching using your wiki and our "where is it from" stuff. For example anecdotes such as a parent asked a kid to do something for them and she muttered something about 'child labour' (that's pretty cool language and concept acquisition). BUT then at the same time, I also value the technical skills that could potentially be acquired and I think we need both. Man you are deep thinker - what we value - Freedom? very cool anecdote - concept aquisition - creativity - collaboration - learning as a self sustaining organism. Is there many values - monetary - NZ made idea, extra life from retired computers, value creativity? - understand and teach it? Value remote communities - ability for resilience, own locale identity value. Ubuntu is free software yeh the - Value - envirethical curriculum - clear consiousness.. linked to why schools should use free software??

I think it will be a better anecdote when a child refuses (or questions) chocolate given to him/her. That's what my expectations are - that kind of change...

Yes - so the criteria is something like: (part 1) Children collaborate and self teach (learn as a self-sustaining organism Blogging installing etc) Children self-evaluate their and their peers progress via the use of webcam (for part 2) Children develop an increased awareness of where things are from and where they end up? (Eg NZ made - fair trade) Children critically evaluate the decisions made by schools/organisations about software choices and eWaste Children value freedom over money (i.e. i would like the msg to be Ubuntu is great NOT because it doesn't COST money but because it promotes FREEDOM)

Language acquisition from each others locales - i.e Walt - heard the word no idea what it means - the same will be for the kids.. I hope the pupils will make..Halloween interuptions...connections, will they be able to effectivley communicate - will there be barriers to the connection - umm pupils students - is pupil and old term - I used pupils up north??? Oh ha ha! Who are these pupils you speak of - we call them students up here ...

Ubuntu - good to make the distinction of Free as in freedom - there is no eff in proprietary... okay now it's my turn what is eff? effin and blindin - swearing - the eff word.

YES of course they will be able to make connections and my kids are very capable of effective communication - or are you taking the piss? It's hard to tell? I thought pupils were the wee black things in your eye? Seriously tho, it's a bit dated

No just thinking out loud - you and I have dialectical and vocabulary differences yet come from a similar cultural background including being teachers - also you use tools like prezzi twitty and so on - will the differences impact on the collaboration and if so in what way - can we or should we eliminate as many barriers or do we allow the students to negotiate through them?

Raaaaar! okay I thought that this was exactly what this was about. Kids, pupils, students, will work it out. If they cant they'll ask. My own (biological) kids (SAME background as your school kids) have never had a problem - they adapt, use different language/dialect in different settings. This is the interesting stuff - we're broadening their horizons (Florence Lyons) We're using the technology and the OS to do this. The hole in the wall kids learned english ffs. I'm sure that kids from the same country can sort it out... Woooo now we're cooking

Ok - so thats in the open - I just need to get the technology from my end sorted - do you think we should be articulating our goals as teachers including the reasons - Sugata, Sir Ken + Open Source so the students understand what is behind this idea or do we let them explore using the tools at hand?? hmmmmm good question - I dunno? If you hadn't asked I would have gone for the explore, but now I'm intrigued - what would you like to do? Social Literacy

Taratj (talk)07:24, 30 October 2010

6 years later and this has come up as a memory on my FB feed. What a bunch of great ideas and passionate talk for our tamariki. Very funny to read my former self discovering Mitra and talking about Ethernet ports... irrelevant now. Amazing! So much water has passed under this bridge. So much has happened. So much has changed. Unfortunately for our learners not enough ... 'Twas nice this time standing on the bridge and looking back, feeling proud of our thoughts. They were always only intended for good. Looking forward I have come full circle. A year (to the day almost) into principalship, a new fellowship has been won, lessons have been learned from the previous one. Arohanui

Taratj (talk)06:49, 16 October 2016

5 more years later and ready for some more collaboration

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NathanP (talk)18:28, 10 April 2022