Facilitating online communities/course mini conference/The Role of a Facilitator Chat Log

[8:13:10 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Great to see you Nellie :)

[8:13:16 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: you sure get around

[8:13:24 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: yes

[8:13:53 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I have a feelingthat Nellie is in a different chat box

[8:14:03 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: hope you guys can still talk

[8:14:10 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: I am here

[8:14:17 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: great

[8:14:17 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: yes Leigh we can

[8:14:44 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: sure

[8:14:48 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: try to keep me filled in Vida

[8:14:53 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I can't hear you guys

[8:14:58 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Ok Leigh

[8:15:40 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Nellie has an echo which she is trying to get rid of

[8:16:21 a.m.] *** Leigh Blackall added Bronwyn Stuckey, David McQuillan to this chat

[8:16:49 a.m.] *** Leigh Blackall has changed the chat topic to "Vida's talk about "what is a facilitator""

[8:17:11 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Also Vida, because you may not be audio recording, chat will be important log

[8:17:46 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch left this chat

[8:20:01 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: over here Vida?

[8:20:10 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: hi

[8:20:17 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: ok we are here now

[8:20:30 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: the joys of Skype hey Vida ;)

[8:20:43 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: yes Leigh

[8:21:26 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: If I see anyone else online, I will click the big plus sign on the right to add them here

[8:21:38 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added annemieke.kes to this chat

[8:21:47 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added cbeall8649 to this chat

[8:21:48 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: and Nellie will too :)

[8:21:54 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added buthaina_3 to this chat

[8:22:02 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added abcdefg_mammography1 to this chat

[8:22:08 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added jannep60 to this chat

[8:22:34 a.m.] Annemieke Kes says: Hi there, who am I chatting with??

[8:22:36 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added kiwanja to this chat

[8:22:43 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Leigh from NZ

[8:22:45 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added clever2gether to this chat

[8:22:53 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added marco-roma6050 to this chat

[8:23:01 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added jploucky to this chat

[8:23:04 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: You are chatting with Vida, Nellie, Leigh we are discussing teh role of a facilitator

[8:23:05 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: wow! Nellie has a lot of friends

[8:23:11 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added Randy Fisher to this chat

[8:23:15 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Sure does Liegh

[8:23:21 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Leigh

[8:23:22 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added cliftonmeadows1, eebee1 to this chat

[8:23:30 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added deirdre.bonnycastle to this chat

[8:23:31 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Vida, can you paste a link to the audio interview of a facilitator you made? [8:23:54 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added tiacarr to this chat

[8:23:59 a.m.] *** Nellie (Muller) Deutsch added laurieadele to this chat

[8:24:20 a.m.] marco-roma6050 says: hell Nellie

[8:24:26 a.m.] deirdre.bonnycastle says: Whats going on? [8:24:45 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: http://blip.tv/file/1383900/

[8:24:47 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Well, Vida has an audio recording of an interview

[8:24:57 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: she made of a professional civic facilitator

[8:25:03 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Hi everyone

[8:25:09 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: and we are aiming to discuss the role of a facilitator

[8:25:31 a.m.] Randy Fisher says: sorry, I'm unable to participate right now...

[8:25:35 a.m.] *** Randy Fisher left this chat

[8:25:40 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Click the link to listen to the interview

[8:26:16 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: & see how it compares to your perception of teh role of a facilitator

[8:26:52 a.m.] David McQuillan says: I'm not able to participate either. Getting the kids organised & off to school

[8:26:56 a.m.] *** David McQuillan left this chat

[8:27:00 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: there are large chucks of silence

[8:27:09 a.m.] David Bowman says: So sorry Nellie am on a conference call

[8:27:13 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: no worries, if anyone can't participate, just drope out

[8:27:23 a.m.] *** David Bowman left this chat

[8:27:44 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: just feel comfortable adding your feedback to the chat box

[8:27:57 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: this is a session on online facilitationi

[8:28:14 a.m.] *** tiacarr left this chat [8:28:18 a.m.] *** Ken Banks left this chat [8:28:20 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: its a great idea to listen and chat at the same time

[8:28:46 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: very soft audio vida [8:28:48 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: thank you, David

[8:28:53 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: OK suits me

[8:28:59 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: bye, David

[8:29:41 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: its interesting in the audio, that he speeks about the need to control behavior

[8:29:54 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: "we break them into groups"

[8:30:03 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: "getting them to write stuff down"

[8:30:08 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: definition of the role of a facilitator

[8:30:24 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: part moderator part teacher

[8:30:31 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: in a community

[8:30:33 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: no way!

[8:30:45 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: community facilitator

[8:30:47 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: yes

[8:31:28 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: If I was in his community - the moment I felt like he was teaching me something, is teh moment I would leave

[8:31:28 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Yes Leigh  I agree

[8:31:43 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I hate "break into groups" formula

[8:31:57 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: he mentioned teamwork

[8:32:08 a.m.] *** Adele Raemer left this chat

[8:32:11 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: teams or groups?

[8:32:27 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: groups yes, teams.. well - that doesn't just happen

[8:32:32 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: teams (y) [8:32:52 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: making the members feel comfortable

[8:32:53 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: its so patronising to control people like this

[8:33:21 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: cup of coffee and talk

[8:33:32 a.m.] deirdre.bonnycastle says: Leigh, I guess it depends on the purpose of the session

[8:33:40 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Yes d

[8:33:45 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: clearly this particular facilitator walks around the room, pen in hand, looking over peoples shoulders, not participating

[8:33:46 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: so, Leigh, I guess you can hea :)

[8:34:02 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: yes Deidre I think it does

[8:34:05 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: no I can only chat - but am listening to the audio

[8:34:16 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: Hi Deidre

[8:34:24 a.m.] deirdre.bonnycastle says: Hi nellie

[8:34:29 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: he doesn't control

[8:34:50 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: "break people into groups" whether they want to or not

[8:34:52 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: so what does he do?

[8:35:04 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: "number them off"

[8:35:10 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: "keep THEM moving"

[8:35:20 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: behavorist

[8:35:31 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: not content but the process

[8:35:42 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: "the" process

[8:36:00 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Vida says, "I see it as moderating a group so they stay on task"

[8:36:26 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: He says "we've come up with a set process"

[8:36:29 a.m.] Marco Pepe says: i am reading

[8:36:35 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: he controls the situation

[8:36:43 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: yes

[8:36:46 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: not the people's content

[8:36:59 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: well, in some ways he controls content

[8:37:09 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: "don't want the loud person dominating"

[8:37:16 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: learn from each other

[8:37:40 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: how do you deal with the loud person?

[8:37:53 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: the loud person maybe the facilitator, too

[8:37:54 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: does he/she need to be delt with?

[8:38:17 a.m.] deirdre.bonnycastle says: So I agree this is a very process dictated type of facilitation. How would you like to see it done differently.

[8:38:18 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: so it's like children

[8:38:35 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: dictated is the key, here Deidre

[8:38:43 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Well, in this session Vida is very hands off

[8:39:01 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: he's in control

[8:39:03 a.m.] Corinne Wilhelm BA(Hons) DipM says: brb

[8:39:05 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: all the time

[8:39:17 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: why do you think about this kind of control?

[8:39:34 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Nellie?

[8:39:50 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: is there an alternative to this kind of facilitation

[8:39:56 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: of course there is!

[8:40:12 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: (clap)

[8:40:32 a.m.] deirdre.bonnycastle says: If this group comes together to learn x then this type of control is necessary to keep people on task.

[8:40:44 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: don't agree

[8:40:57 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: task-oriented vs relationship-oriented

[8:41:00 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: this recording is talking about a man who facilitates civic consultation

[8:41:05 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: nothing about learning

[8:41:09 a.m.] deirdre.bonnycastle says: If this is a group to solve a problem or explore ideas then the control is too tight

[8:41:23 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: make decisions?

[8:41:27 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: he works for the local council right Vida?

[8:42:04 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: is it a community service idea?

[8:42:16 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: sort of.. community consultation

[8:42:24 a.m.] deirdre.bonnycastle says: Then your concern Liegh is valid

[8:42:26 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: for the purpose of? [8:42:35 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: where all teh community in a town come together and discuss a development or something

[8:42:43 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: so is he leading more than he should?

[8:42:50 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I think so

[8:43:06 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: especially if the town has a perception that the council is not very consultative

[8:43:12 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: is he putting words into their mouths

[8:43:28 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: he is putting actions into their legs and bums, which controls words

[8:43:37 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: is he like a band leader

[8:43:46 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: (chuckle)

[8:43:48 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: a conductr

[8:44:07 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Again a band leader focuses on x task

[8:44:10 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: no a band (flex)

[8:44:35 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: it's not an easy process

[8:44:35 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Vida asks "do you do any research before a meeting"

[8:44:46 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: definitely

[8:44:48 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: interviewee jokes "we make it up as we go"

[8:45:09 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: but his serious answer says nothing about pre meeting research

[8:45:16 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: leaves it all to in-meeting

[8:45:21 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: does he know the participants?

[8:45:32 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: doesn't sound like it

[8:45:39 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: he believes in spontaneity

[8:45:45 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: and intuition does he not

[8:45:56 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: well, his own spontaneity at least

[8:45:59 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: isn't that a good thing?

[8:46:19 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: disrespectful, if he won't allow it in the meeting

[8:46:26 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: what about chaos?

[8:46:35 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: is that such a bad thing for such meetings?

[8:46:48 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: (sun)

[8:46:50 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: good pre research would be an alternative type of control

[8:47:00 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: I agree, Leigh [8:47:11 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Define good pre research

[8:47:32 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: needs assessment survey from each participant, maybe

[8:47:34 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: from this, it sounds like he doesn't actually know who has something to say on an issue before the nmeeting

[8:47:45 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: and leaves it all to the meeting

[8:47:52 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: he says it

[8:47:58 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I would work to find out who has something to say before the meeting

[8:48:03 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: like a reporter might do

[8:48:12 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: interview or survey

[8:48:19 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: the participants

[8:48:22 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: justy investigate

[8:48:30 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Very time consuming??

[8:48:33 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: but online facilitation could be the same

[8:48:34 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: so I would be prepared for the meeting

[8:48:43 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: with out the need for patronising formula

[8:48:45 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: the facilitator has to do a great deal

[8:48:50 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: before

[8:49:04 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: much more difficult online

[8:49:10 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: is it?

[8:49:21 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: well, things happen so much quicker online

[8:49:31 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: like this session

[8:49:34 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: suddenly its on

[8:49:53 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: true, but if you are well prepared with lots of backups, it be fun (makeup)

[8:49:59 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I guess Vida could have researched and ensured certain voices be here

[8:50:10 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: And I have no idea of why we were called together Smile!

[8:50:22 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: my fault, Deidre

[8:50:40 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Nellie stepping in as a facilitator.. bringing in a researched voice D

[8:50:44 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: can you help us understand the rold of an online facilitator

[8:50:52 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: rold=role

[8:51:15 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: community online facilitator

[8:51:18 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: He says "groups self moderate" very true

[8:51:50 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: and explains why small groups are important - because they self moderate

[8:51:53 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: hmm

[8:51:55 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: how does leadership tie into faciltation?

[8:52:08 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: but he controls

[8:52:10 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I don't think it should

[8:52:18 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: he leads them

[8:52:30 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: I sometimes think there needs to be a progress person who asks questions and a process person who supports and gatekeeps.

[8:52:51 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: interesting suggestion D

[8:52:58 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: co-facilitate?

[8:53:06 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: sounds like it

[8:53:17 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Its worked well for me in the past.

[8:53:49 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: the audio has come to an end here

[8:54:14 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Vida says "we help people learn, you help people discover things"

[8:54:31 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Vida is trying to see a link between learning facilitator and civic facilitator

[8:54:57 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: He says, "sometimes its about semi-teaching"

[8:55:14 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: and talks about the idea that he is teaching various soft skills

[8:56:08 a.m.] *** Marco Pepe left this chat

*** [8:56:10 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Nellie I have no idea who to call

[8:56:38 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: Vida, how can Deidre call in?

[8:57:12 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: you know, this is the second time I have listened to this, and thansk to this chat process I see more of the detail in teh recording

[8:57:38 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: I am unable to hear

[8:57:46 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: the recording?

[8:57:53 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: no, now

[8:58:00 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: teh skype call?

[8:58:08 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: I don't hear Vida, yes

[8:58:09 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: I see this a lot in medicine which tends to be very training focused instead of discovery learning focussed

[8:58:33 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: so are we talking about different kinds of online facilitation?

[8:58:39 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: yes

[8:58:41 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: with differing needs

[8:58:46 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: yes

[8:58:57 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: but isn't it all about some kind of learning

[8:59:06 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: whether process or content learning

[8:59:26 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Process and content co exist

[8:59:36 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: they would have to

[8:59:41 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: but what leads what?

[8:59:59 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: or do they work in unison?

[9:00:07 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: I think of it more in terms of direct vs discovery learning approaches

[9:00:28 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: is direct as effective as discovery?

[9:00:55 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: or does it differ re learning styles etc

[9:01:16 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: Vida, are you speaking?

[9:01:19 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: I think it differs in terms of purpose.

[9:01:47 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Medical students need to learn a very defined XX

[9:02:01 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Vida tells me (in gtalk) that she is having trouble adding into this chat

[9:02:08 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Community groups are exploring new ways to do Y

[9:02:51 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: So the facilitation needs to be different

[9:03:23 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Needs to be different because the expectations of the participants in different

[9:03:29 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I go to a learning event to learn

[9:03:30 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: yes

[9:03:36 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: can facilitation be like a TV say Ricky Lake?

[9:03:41 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: TV show

[9:03:55 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I go to a community event to learn yes, but differently - as an equal and possibly to participate

[9:04:11 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: so you go to make a difference

[9:04:11 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: liek TV, yes - a different purpose again

[9:04:15 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: interviews

[9:04:37 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: who interviews whom?

[9:04:47 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: in Ricky Lake type scenraios

[9:04:51 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: its obvious

[9:05:01 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: do the faciltated interview the facilitator or vis versa or both?

[9:05:11 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: and probably better for learning cenarios, where we simply listen watch and laugh

[9:05:32 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: I agree. I would love my students to take over the class for me

[9:05:44 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: and lead the learning process

[9:05:58 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Nellie, classrooms are entirely different again

[9:06:09 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: they won't take over because YOU are their teacher

[9:06:13 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: not the way I see it

[9:06:13 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: I do a lot of facilitation and use questions a lot to keep the session interactive.

[9:06:28 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: I see facilitation as a good way to learn

[9:06:34 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: yes it is

[9:06:35 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: on both ends

[9:06:53 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: but teachers seem to fail to see the barriers they present to facilitation

[9:07:00 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: the participants should be leading and taking the initiative

[9:07:17 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: they should be encouraged to open up and give

[9:07:21 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I think a lot of it has to do with the point taht the skill is poorly defined, and poorly inderstood (in education)

[9:07:23 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: "should be leading" not always

[9:07:30 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: instead of being led and only taking

[9:07:59 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: imagine teaching people to operate by facilitation

[9:08:11 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: it should is poorly understood, I totally agree with that

[9:08:23 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: should=sure

[9:08:50 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: I would love that, Deidre

[9:09:09 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: think learning by discovery may be very helpful

[9:09:14 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: The patient wouldn't :D

[9:09:22 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: they can start with a doll

[9:10:32 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Two years ago I would have agreed but I've discovered the dimension of time.

[9:10:46 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: time and money

[9:10:49 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: I can text now

[9:10:52 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Bingo

[9:11:04 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: :@

[9:11:26 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: but what is gained in the long run?

[9:12:04 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Isn't learning by discovery what we alldo: that;s part of life

[9:12:19 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: There is a fine balance between engaging peoples hearts and minds and getting tasks done.

[9:12:21 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: Leigh, have you ever been involved in the kind of facilitation you are referring to?

[9:12:46 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: insulting.. of course I have!

[9:12:47 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: task-oriented or relationship-oriented ????

[9:13:01 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: I think they can be combined (handshake)

[9:13:14 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: insulting? (u)

[9:13:28 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: I think they have to be combined to be successful

[9:13:29 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: As though I would talk about something I have no idea about

[9:13:32 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: My point exactly, finding the balance

[9:13:35 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: then please tell us about one

[9:13:42 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: many -

[9:13:50 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: small one

[9:14:05 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: can you describe one, please (F)

[9:14:11 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I needed to call a meeting of people around my town who work in teaching business skills

[9:14:14 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: ...

[9:14:26 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: go on...

[9:14:38 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: the meeting was to explore ideas, and for one group to propose an idea and get feedback

[9:14:45 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: my role, as a facilitator..

[9:14:52 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: was to make contact with everyone

[9:14:58 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: get background

[9:15:07 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: anticipate what they might say

[9:15:12 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: organise a meeting room

[9:15:20 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: how did you do the background check?

[9:15:24 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: get everyone there

[9:15:35 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: background? = telephone calls

[9:15:47 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: what kind of questions did you ask?

[9:16:23 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I asked if they would attend a meeting such as this, if they knew anything about what was being proposed, what their initial thoughts on it where

[9:16:39 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: they often suggested other people to call and invite

[9:17:04 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: so you made sure they knew what the agenda was

[9:17:21 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: or you checked to see what they knew or didn't know

[9:17:22 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I ran the meeting, making sure to prompt people if (based on my background checks) I thought they would have something worth while to add

[9:17:31 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: you were prepared & made sure tehy were too

[9:17:39 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: yes

[9:17:49 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: the meeting ran a lot like a panel

[9:17:52 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: a good way to be I think

[9:17:54 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: so you got them thinking with your background questioning

[9:17:55 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: I was central

[9:18:17 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: in passing the speaking hat around and keeping the topic moving

[9:18:31 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: but never impossed a point of view on the discussion

[9:18:38 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: so you knew what to expect ahead of time

[9:18:52 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: as much as possible yes

[9:19:06 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: they were warmed up and ready to go when the meeting started

[9:19:13 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: but this is one example witha different context to many others

[9:19:16 a.m.] Deirdre Bonnycastle says: Sorry folks, I'm at work and I need to get back on task. It's been a very interesting discussion.

[9:19:23 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: me too D

[9:19:47 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: its 920am here and I need to start other work

[9:19:58 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: so your initial background check was a kind of mind opener for them

[9:20:05 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: thank you, Deidre

[9:20:06 a.m.] *** Deirdre Bonnycastle left this chat

[9:20:11 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: So you did background research, knew what to expect, prepared the participants & remained neutral when the topic was discussed. Great facilitation :)

[9:20:14 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: it was many things Nellie, including that.

[9:20:33 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: and nothing to do with learning objectives

[9:20:37 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: but preparing the participants could be tricky

[9:20:53 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: I got you

[9:21:02 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: it would certainly be tricky in meetings or events of more than 10

[9:21:09 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: however, I still believe in collaborative learning

[9:21:19 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: right

[9:21:22 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: of course!

[9:21:43 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: constructivist/construction-ism is worth a lot to learning

[9:21:44 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: I need to go too. Thanks for the lively discussion everyone. It has been interesting & enlightening.

[9:21:54 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: that's why what you just mentioned is important for educators to understand and practice

[9:22:01 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: Vida, don't forget to take a copy of this chat

[9:22:12 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: I like a mix of connectivism & constructivism

[9:22:14 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: thank you everyone

[9:22:20 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: not just this example either Nellie!

[9:22:25 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: No leigh I won't will post it to my blog

[9:22:30 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: teachers are so locked in

[9:22:54 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: I just wanted to hear, Leigh

[9:23:00 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Yes I agree Leighespecially if they have been teaching for a long time

[9:23:26 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: it was not for proof or anything like that. Sorry my intentions were not clearly stated.

[9:23:38 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: Thanks maybe see you in seconld Life soon [9:23:45 a.m.] Vida Thompson says: second

[9:23:49 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: yes

[9:24:18 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: thank you, Leigh. I really learned alot. (F)

[9:24:43 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: no, thanks all for giving the opportunity to each other to talk and nut things out

[9:24:51 a.m.] Nellie (Muller) Deutsch says: the question for me is how to unlock teachers

[9:24:53 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: and thanks Vida

[9:25:02 a.m.] Leigh Blackall says: restart them